I was listening to the 700 club on television today. Their theme was sexuality and their main story was about a study done by Jones and Yarhouse on the conversion success of homosexuals participating in gay recovery ministries.
The short story is this… some gays can change a lot, some a little, some not at all and some simply enter the celibate life. Quite a mix bag of results. Yet the scientific(?) community says that changing sexual orientation is not possible but can only lead to mental harm. This study shows that the truth is somewhere else. Though the sample community was small it shows that the homosexual may have room to maneuver.
Personally I view homosexuality as no different than any other type of obsessive, compulsive and/or addictive (OCA) behaviour. There are degrees of involvement. I was a weekend alcoholic. The rest of the week I was fine and abstained from drinking but on weekends I would start drinking friday evening and wouldn’t stop until early sunday morning… if then.
What other behaviour can count as obsessive, compulsive and/or addictive. Gosh, everything under the sun including religion. Of course there are groups where the OCA behaviour would be accepted. They flock together: druggies with druggies, alcoholics with alcoholics, homosexuals with homosexuals, and the list goes on and on.
Hopefully the church, or should I say a church, is the one place that a person can go to get the help they need to overcome their personal demon. There doesn’t need to be pointing fingers or shouts to repent. There needs to be understanding and a willingness to come alongside those who are trapped and help them to overcome the problem they face. This could take years of counselling to immediate conversion or anything in between.
What the person who needs help must admit is that their actions are wrong. Then seek the help of a loving church. If the church will not admit that certain behaviours are wrong then they condemn the OCA to his/her lifestyle. Those who think there is nothing wrong with their behaviour should be given a time to repent (change their minds about it). If not, by-by. Yet if the church throws out the OCA who wants to change then they do a dis-service not only to the person seeking help but forget who it is that God came to save.
In all this we must show God’s grace toward the sinner and God’s love for the sinner. Whatever OCA a person has, their only true help comes from God and usually that means through a local church.
OK, that was two cents worth. What is your position on homosexuality or any other OCA activity?
Joe, I read a book by Tony Campolo. I agree with his position. He claims that there are two issues. One is ” behavior” and the other is “Orientation”. It is his experience after 30+ years of counselling Homosexuals that they cannot change their orientation any more than a heterosexual can change his/hers. There are many theories as to what causes homosexuality, but nobody really knows for sure, but if you have that orientation, he claims there really is no cure. Many claim to go through programs and get delivered of homosexuality, but he claims that after lengthy follow up , the orientation has not really changed. He maintains that the behavior aspect is sinful, just as heterosexual behavior of non-married persons. He says it is not sinful to have the orientation, just as it is not sinful to be of heterosexual orientation, as long as one does not act out the behavior outside of marriage. He believes Christian homosexuals must abstain from the behavior of homosexual sex, in order to be right with God. He believes it is every humans right to give and receive love. He says that it is possible for two homosexuals to have the nurturing aspect of love without the sexual behavior, and knows personally some Christian Homosexuals that are able to sustain this kind of relationship. He says the church has really failed the homosexual community, by not recognizing these distinctions. We do need to take a stand and call sin what it is….sin, but at the same time welcome everyone into our fellowship to receive the love and nurturing they deserve. Christian homosexuals who love God and want to serve him understand these distictions and can live within their boundaries.
distinctions (typo)
OCA behavior? Yup. I had that too. I was also a weekend alcoholic. It was the center of my social life. I also smoked for about 36 years. God delivered me from both over a period of time. Drinking took 3 years and one dramatic experience with some visible demons. Smoking took 10 years and the help of the patch and the death of my mother. There was a very strong attachment between her and my smoking. I think that went all the way back to the womb. No matter what our OCA behavior is, everyone desires acceptance and acknowledgement as a human being where we are. The church should be a good place to find love and acceptance. Many churches end up throwing out the baby with the bath water. We need to love the and accept the sinner, not the sin. There is a distinction to be made here. I think our church is very strong in this area. That has been my expereince. Heck, if they can love me, they can love anybody!
It is truly wonderful to hear of testimonies where someone who had an OCA was quickly and totally healed/delivered. Sadly those seem to be more on the rare side than the common experience. Whether homosexuality, alcohol, drugs, or any other (contra-biblical?) behaviour the word “cured” is almost never heard. “Managed” perhaps would be a better word. It can only happen where there are ministries to bring about the physical, mental and spiritual healing of the afflicted person. Our church has opened the door for these types of ministries in the past as well as the present.
First off, dougie g, what I heard Tony Campolo saying was that it was much more desirable that homos remain celibate: I thought he kind of emphasized that.
But, coming back to your questions, Joe, I think homosexuality goes much deeper in it’s roots than OCA’s. particularly addictions. These usually develop as a substitute for some other malady–a way of copping out from dealing with your problems. They are a learned habit. Whereas, homosexuality can stem from pre-natal wounding as well as early age environment. My own attitude is that we should love the sinner but hate the sin. I don’t look down on homos or shun them or reject them as individuals: but, I can’t accept what they do as being normal like they would have us do, because according to the Bible, it is sin. Romans 1 makes that very clear. The several main line Christian denominations that have embraced their activity have clearly rejected God’s word.
Don G……. yes Tony said that in order for a Christian Homosexual to practise his faith he must be celebate. He recongnized the ” homosexual behavior” as sin. The orientation is not sin, according to him. He also did not recognize marriage amongst homosexuals as being biblically legitimate, since the bible is clear that marriage can only take place between a man and a women. In that case all sex outside of marriage is sin no matter what your orientation is. The heterosexual that has sex outside of marriage is being equally sinfull as a homosexual who has sex. Since the homosexual cannot (in Gods eyes) be married, they should refrain from sexual activity.
That’s why the homosexual community has pushed so hard for this marriage thing. They think that will legitimise their behavior. They may be able to fool our policy makers and even fool themselves, but they aren’t going to fool God.
dougie g —-right on ! Well said.